Just a reminder

"CB" (jrcb) 09/20/2016 at 14:57 • Filed to: None

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If you start getting on board the hype-train, it’ll end up like the BRZ/FR-S/GT86 all over again. Accept the fact that in one way or another, you’ll find it disappointing, and you’ll be much happier for it. This advice applies to everything.

Milky > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:01

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The nose and sound are already disappointing.

Decay buys too many beaters > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:04

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It will be too expensive

It will be slow

It will be heavy

It will be automatc only

I predict at least two of the above will be true. And I so want it to be good as an FR-S owner hungry for more power reliably from a similar chassis.

HammerheadFistpunch > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:08

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I kinda had the same reaction. It’s a bit pessimistic but I think you are right regarding this supra. Just realize it will be a numbers car* in a sport coupe body for upper-middle class prices and you’ll be where you need to be.

*plenty of power, plenty of grip, plenty of go but nothing particularly exciting for the drive.

McMike > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:09

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What Subaru engine will this one have?

Kanaric > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:14

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I think it’s going to meet the “hype” performance wise but it’s not going to be what people here want.

Probably going to be called a Lexus RSC (or whatever random letters you come up with), price at $60,000, and is going to come with a boringmatic transmission.

Oh and it will weight the obligatory 4000lbs like the Jaguar F-Type.

If Nissan builds a 370Z that fixes the cooling issues with it and puts in their new 3.0l TT engine you will have a better can than what Toyota is surely making.

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 15:14

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I think it’s a mindset that enthusiasts need more of, a bit of realism to go with idealism. Think back to when the Toyobaru twins were announced.

“We want a small car that returns to the roots of driving purity!”

“Okay, here are some Toyobarus.”

“They’re going to do it! They’re going to save us all!”

-once they come out-

“What? There’s not enough power. Give us more power!” (Nevermind the fact that sub-seven seconds to mid-seven seconds for 0-60 times is pretty damn quick for sub-$30k)

And then sales drop off. And I wouldn’t be surprised if there isn’t another generation of them, resulting in bitching and moaning from automotive enthusiasts about how they’re being left out to dry and that manufacturers never listen to them.

Accept the fact that it any vehicle coming out will never be the perfect machine in your mind’s eye, and you’ll be a lot happier. Judge it on its own merits, not the dreams and expectations you have for it.

CB > McMike 09/20/2016 at 15:16

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The flat-four from the Impreza, no added power.

BeaterGT > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:16

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It’ll get the CVT too.

CB > BeaterGT 09/20/2016 at 15:17

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Oh, absolutely. And only four fake-gear presets.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:22

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No I6, no shits to give.

Kanaric > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 15:25

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It’s co made with BMW so surely that must be what BMW is contributing? If not then what was the point of this collab lmao.

googles: v6.... wow. WTF.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Kanaric 09/20/2016 at 15:31

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They developed the chassis together, but they’ll both be running their own power plant and all signs point to the new Supra-named-car getting a new TT V6 being developed for Lexus.

for Michigan > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:34

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A Toyota salesman told me it’s going to be a Lexus because nobody would be happy if it was a Supra. I think that makes a lot of sense.

Kanaric > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 15:34

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Sounds like this is going to be a huge money vehicle. I mean I trust Nissan about as much as I trust Toyota (not at all, this isn’t the 90s lol) but I expect the next Z will still be under $40k even if it is twin turbo as the word is saying.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Kanaric 09/20/2016 at 15:36

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Yeah, I’m expecting a realistic minimum price of close to 70 and wouldn’t be surprised if they go after GTR with it. Stupid, stupid Toyota. Give us an NA I6 around 40, a turbo around 50 and be done with it.

CB > for Michigan 09/20/2016 at 15:36

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Absolutely.

Hellcat Everything > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:37

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Every single classic car that automakers bring back these days always comes with an exorbitant price tag compared to the original, because #Heritage, or is such a completely different vehicle that it loses its touch with the original, nearly every single one.

scoob > for Michigan 09/20/2016 at 15:37

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Wasn’t this also kind of the case with the GTR? People thought it should’ve been an Infiniti, but it was a Nissan.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > scoob 09/20/2016 at 15:41

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Should have called it a Datsun.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky 09/20/2016 at 15:42

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When was the last time you heard a stock exhaust Supra? They’re surprisingly quiet.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > McMike 09/20/2016 at 15:43

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They should put the 360's engine in so it will at least have character.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:47

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“What? There’s not enough power. Give us more power!”

I think the issue is that they didn’t even give us a choice. Leave the stock NA one where it is, but give a 50% power increase option. There were an awful lot of people holding out for the STi BRZ that never came. Sub 7 seconds for 30k isn’t that big of a deal anymore. Keep in mind that the new Miata does it in under 6.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:51

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People want everything out of a car for none of the price, it’s stupid.

Like all the people who complain about the power in the Toyobaru not being enough, when in the hands of the right driver it could likely outpace them on a track in whatever car they’re in.

And then they try to argue that they could have thrown the WRX’s turbo on there and it would cost the same, but fail to think that the manufacturer likely thought about that (the engine doesn’t fit in that configuration) and that the added R&D to properly set that up wouldn’t be worth the drop in sales due to an inflated selling price (at which they’d complain it’s too expensive and needs more power for the money still).

CB > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 15:51

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Once again, by any metric, it’s not a slow car. And if people are calling it a return to the true enthusiast’s car, it doesn’t need all the power in the world. It’s accelerated as fast as the Miata at the time, yet the Miata is an enthusiast’s wet dream. So what gives?

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say enthusiasts have entitlement issues.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > for Michigan 09/20/2016 at 15:54

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First, idk how much I trust 99% of car salesmen. They’re generally salesmen, not actual car guys, and generally pretend to be privy to much more insider information than they actually are.

Lexus already has some “performance cars.”

And Toyota has been pretty clear about a desire to return to a 3-tier sports car line up.

To be realistic, in Japan that certainly seems viable, but I could see that changing somewhat stateside. (Stupid bean counters and terrible marketing department at Toyota)

I guess we will see though. I suppose I could see a scenario where they label it as a sort of Lexus “LFA-lite”

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > CB 09/20/2016 at 15:59

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As someone who avidly followed the 86's development and bought one, I think the underlying message in the hype was lived up to 100%. The problem came from people over-inflating in their heads what that message meant.

They envision bringing back the true lightweight RWD driver’s car as getting something with the power of a Mustang GT, that’s the size of a Corolla, with the handling of a Cayman GTS, all for the price of a Mazda3.

The car they produced essentially lived up to exactly what the promised, the same sort of sports car experience we got in the ‘80s and ‘90s. They seem to forget that Toyota/Subaru also had to pack in all the new safety systems and what not that weren’t required back then (read: added weight) and still deliver the same performance.

The FR-S/BRZ fully delivered on what it was meant to in my book. (I do really dislike the new 86 nose though; bleh)

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 16:05

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Literally never. But its 2016, cars are loud af now obvi.

for Michigan > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/20/2016 at 16:06

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He seemed like a car guy. We talked about car guy stuff. Maybe he was just a good salesman, but it he came across as knowledgeable.

But he was a salesman and he didn’t give any sort of proof, which is why I qualified my original statement with, “A Toyota salesman told me...”

I don’t pay a whole lot of attention to Toyota - or Lexus for that matter. To me they’re just the company that makes the ugly version of the Subaru that I want. So I really have no idea what Toyota’s intentions are or where the BMW/Toyota car would fit in Lexus’ line up.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > CB 09/20/2016 at 16:06

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I’m going to go out on a limb here and say enthusiasts have entitlement issues.

This x1,000

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 16:08

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I do think that offering a TRD supercharger factory add-on option would have been a smart move, for all of those naysayers who think it isn’t fast enough for their street light drag races but “don’t want to void my warranty with aftermarket parts.”

for Michigan > scoob 09/20/2016 at 16:09

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I don’t know. I’ve never really been into GT-R’s.

Decay buys too many beaters > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/20/2016 at 16:09

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This.

Was out on track this weekend, only cars I had trouble keeping up with was a group of Lotuses on R-comps. Surprised the hell out of a few corvette and viper owners when they came over to see that the “beast” under my hood was still the mostly stock 200hp brick.

404 - User No Longer Available > for Michigan 09/20/2016 at 16:10

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Why on earth would they need that when the have the RC(-F)? To confuse customers?

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Decay buys too many beaters 09/20/2016 at 16:10

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Exactly.

People misunderstand what a driver’s car is. They think it’s a car that makes you fast on a track, not one that helps you learn to be fast on a track.

404 - User No Longer Available > McMike 09/20/2016 at 16:11

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Nah. BMW B48. Have fun with the timing chains.

for Michigan > 404 - User No Longer Available 09/20/2016 at 16:12

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Like I told Chris, I don’t know. I follow Lexus about as closely as I follow football.

Decay buys too many beaters > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/20/2016 at 16:16

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And all the internet warriors would do well to actually attend a track day and see just how many of these slow, under-powered, overpriced, Japanese shitboxes are holding their own in the advanced groups. It’s actually pretty insane around me, usually the only car more in attendance is the Miata, and they have 23 more years of production to pull from.

I’ve stopped arguing altogether and just accepted that the average enthusiast I meet on the internet is all about the pull from a stoplight, which is fine, they just need to realize how meaningless magazine tests are for track numbers as they are generally shackled to stock tires and brakes.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Decay buys too many beaters 09/20/2016 at 16:19

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Yep.

The sad thing is that they won’t even listen to results or evidence from track data, which is really the truest test of performance cars. Especially the ones from grassroots enthusiasts out at HPDE’s, as they’re the driver’s most comparable to the skill of the average enthusiast.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/20/2016 at 16:20

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I bought one, remember. I’m not criticizing it because I really really want to beat those Z drivers at stoplight races. There were faster minivans than that car. Truth be told, you can learn how to be fast on track in any car. I started in my old Mazda3, then bought my BRZ, then realized that even if it had the power it’s not the driver’s car that a rusty 25 year old AW11 with zero compression on the #4 cylinder and maybe 80 hp is. It’s also not an entitlement issue when it comes down to what people are willing to pay for. It’s not like the car was given to me and I thought it needed more power and a better steering rack, though it does seem like an awful lot of the owners are college students whose parents bought them the car. It was my money and I was willing to pay more for a turbo but there was none and there were an awful lot of people who were also willing to spend that money if it existed and now they can’t sell them because the market was saturated by the first batch.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/20/2016 at 16:24

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I’ll agree that just about any sports car from the late ‘80s or early-mid ‘90s will generally feel like more of a driver’s car, thanks to the lack of aids and added safety components. I think the idea of what’s really attainable in a cheap sports car needs to be re-evaluated.

I think in reality you’re one of the rare exceptions on the turbocharged rule. I honestly think that most of the people saying they would have bought one and shelled out more dough for a turbocharged model actually wouldn’t have, because their primary concern seemed to be power and at the added price you could have a Mustang GT or 370Z with way more power.

Decay buys too many beaters > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/20/2016 at 16:26

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Nope it always comes back to (at least specifically on the 86) “Bro, a V6 Camry gets to 60 faster”

:/

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Decay buys too many beaters 09/20/2016 at 16:29

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Yeah... *sigh*

McMike > 404 - User No Longer Available 09/20/2016 at 16:52

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Wait, I was kidding. A 2000cc Mini engine?

I was expecting an unexciting V6, maybe turbocharged. Are you serious? How can Toyota’s top GT car have a 2000cc 4 cylinder?

404 - User No Longer Available > McMike 09/20/2016 at 17:14

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I was kidding as well. And just so you know... that engine is actually in the 7-series as well.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > CB 09/20/2016 at 21:04

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I love my FR-S